Borderland Beat: by Sanjuana Martínez for La Jornada
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Hipolito Mora doesn't talk very much. After two months in prison, in the aftermath he is left fearful, distrustful, and reserved. He harbors a lot of anger for what the government did to him, he says;
"They imprisoned me for defending an ideal that benefits the people. I will never again be apprehended. Even less so if I carry a weapon. I won’t give up. Let them kill me! Or better yet, let them shoot me and I them. They are not going to come again to put me in jail unjustly.”
Always seen hanging around his neck, are two cell phones and a pearlrosary. Today he is wearing a new hat, with a blue plaid shirt and glasses. He smiles, he says that he feels happy for the love that people express and because, he acknowledges, that now more than ever, he is absolute that the struggle of the autodefensa groups in Michoacán must continue.
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Dr. José Manuel Mireles
In Mexico City he awaits Mora in the living room of his attorney, where they will eat with a group of friends. Just a few hours prior, the first National Congress of autodefensa concluded.
In Mexico City he awaits Mora in the living room of his attorney, where they will eat with a group of friends. Just a few hours prior, the first National Congress of autodefensa concluded.
Mora he acknowledges that his close friend and AD partner is the "media guy" while he is the strategist.
In an interview with La Jornada, he says;
HM:"Together we're invincible; he, more than I.”
"I Was Wounded That They Imprisoned Me"
Cautiously, the founder of the self-defense movement of Michoacán has just two weeks of freedom in La Ruana, and he still doesn't understand the “why”, that resulted in the betrayal that led him to prison:
HM:"How is it possible that the government imprisoned me? If they knew exactlyl what I'm doing? This is going to sound bad,…. but I am the most sensible of the leaders. The same government that imprisoned me told me: 'We know you are the most well-balanced of the group, you are the mediator'.
Then bam! Off to jail! It wounded me. I felt, and I feel, very angry. Tremendously."
La Jornada: Would you say, that it's not good to be trusted by the government?
HM:"Yes, I saw it. I've never even offended those bastards at any time. And they put me in jail. It makes realize that it's good to be firm with them."
La Jornada: What did Commissioner Alfredo Castillo say to you, when you left prison?
HM:"Nothing, we joked."
La Jornada: About what?
HM:"We talked for two hours. At some point he got up to speak on the telephone. Before they locked me up, he was thinner and now I see that he is a little chubby. And I told him, 'Look, if you let this continue, you're going to be just as plump as me'. Then he turned to another person and asked: 'Did he just call me piggy? 'Then he turns to me and asked, ‘Did you call me piggy?' And he came back with; 'It seems to me that I'll have to put you in jail again’, he relays the story with laughter.
La Jornada: Do you trust him?
HM:"I am a very trusting person, so whatever happens, happens. But, in this case, no, not anymore.”
La Jornada: What is your Plan B, if things don't work with the government?
HM: "I haven't thought about that scenario yet."
La Jornada: Will you?
HM:"Yes."
La Jornada: Will you take up arms again?
HM: "If it's necessary, yes."
La Jornada: Do you sleep with a 9mm?
HM:"Yes, always. If things start up, I just have to reach out with my hand , Just like that. I keep it on one side of me."
La Jornada: How many weapons do you have?
HM:"Right now, they took almost all of them."
La Jornada: Who?
HM: "The same government that detained me. They told all the guys; 'relinquish the weapons’. They had us surrounded. However, they are now returning them to us. They were all registered weapons."
La Jornada: But, aren’t some of yours missing?
HM: "Yes, of course; and we need them."
La Jornada: What else do you need?
HM: "To continue the fight. We have conflict with Caballeros Templarios, we need the weapons to defend ourselves and our property."
La Jornada: And what about the government’s order of disarmament ?
HM: "Right now, no. We cannot disarm right now."
La Jornada: Did you negotiate with the government to get out of jail?
HM: "No. They didn't find any evidence against me. There were many people who were interested in my staying in jail. But they could not [legally] keep me there."
La Jornada: Like who, was interested?
HM: "Templarios. I affected their interests, which are many."
La Jornada: Templarios, in collusion with the local power?
HM: "Most likely."
La Jornada: Alfredo Castillo believes the problem in Michoacán has been solved in five months.
HM: "He is wrong. This problem is going to take a long time to resolve, he think it's easy. I told him that I've always lived in Michoacán; I know how everything is. This is so dangerous that it can even revert to even worse."
La Jornada: Revert how?
HM:"In a way that doesn't benefit anyone."
La Jornada: Why? Aren't they going to solve things?
HM:"there are many problems in Michoacán, and the government has to continue working. And we autodefensas, also."
La Jornada: As yet, haven't seen you dressed in blue, Rurales Force uniform.
HM: No. I signed up. But I doubt it, I doubt I will be joining it."
La Jornada: You doubt it?
HM: "We are waiting."
La Jornada: Will you wear the uniform?
HM:"If there is a need."
La Jornada: Have you thought, that if you do, you would disappoint many people?
HM:"A little ... "
La Jornada: Do you feel like a leader of a social struggle, or a government fight?
HM: "Probably, the social struggle."
La Jornada: Since when?
HM: "Some time ago. If you could see the reaction of the people in any town I visit, any place. When they see me walking around, they come out of the shops, and their homes. Sometimes I go to buy a shirt and they don't want me to pay. In a restaurant, they don't want me to pay. Wherever I am, everyone wants to take photos with me. In La Ruana itself, where we've known each other our entire lives, my neighbors want to take pictures with me. That motivates me to keep struggling."
Papa Smurf
La Jornada: Do you see yourself fighting alongside Papa Smurf, [Estanislao Beltrán]?
HM:"No."
La Jornada: Alongside El Americano, El Viagra, El 5 ... ?
HM:“No."
La Jornada:You're not going on patrol with them?
HM:"No. I do not believe that we will patrol together. We are of different character. A fight like this should be from the heart, born from the pain of seeing what is happening to others. When you fight like that, one doesn't even think of the money. I didn't think about the money, when at the beginning of the movement there were many offers, but right now I am getting the fruit of my labor.
I receive it in the embraces, when they ask to have their picture taken with me, when like now, incredibly, when they ask for an autograph. If I did not fall into temptation in the beginning , there is no chance now, with so much of the people's affection."
I receive it in the embraces, when they ask to have their picture taken with me, when like now, incredibly, when they ask for an autograph. If I did not fall into temptation in the beginning , there is no chance now, with so much of the people's affection."
La Jornada: In addition to El Chayo, who else wanted to give you money?
HM: "La Tuta. He sent me a video telling me that I could retire,if I would work for them. He knew that I had not joined any cartel, that I had not sold out to anyone. He named other people who did. I sent him word that he had very good information and that, please, let us [people of Michoacan ] be at peace, that I will never accept his offer to work with him and the Templarios. I asked a favor of him, that he not again send people to attack La Ruana, that there be no more deaths. And that he respects it. He no longer sent them."
La Jornada: And the government wants to bribe you?
HM: "No. it hasn't offered me anything yet."
La Jornada: What if there was an offer?
HM: "They wouldn't gain anything from me, but I would be grateful if there were sources of jobs so Michoacán might be a little better.
La Jornada: What will it take for Michoacán to have peace again?
HM: "That the government continues working, but doing its job well. Imprison those who deserve it, clean up Michoacán completely. And leave us in peace."
La Jornada: But the government disarms you and not The Templarios. ... Tell me why, because I do not understand...
HM: [Silence]
La Jornada: Why does the government do this?
HM:"One must have patience .... "
La Jornada: What will you do after the first Congress of Autodefensas?
HM: "I have been invited to other states. All I ask of God is that it might be better for everyone, not just for a small group of people holding onto the wealth of Mexico that it [wealth] might be distributed in some way"
“And I Would Like to Be Legal"
La Jornada: Then, if the government doesn't offer money ... what does it offer you?
HM: "Only one pistol, a rifle and the uniform."
La Jornada: And being legal?
HM: "What I would like, is to be legal. Now we've carried weapons illegally for one year and two months. I have many enemies. I would like to carry the weapon with a credential that certifies me, that will not be taken away, and that they won't come again to detain me."
La Jornada: If the government gives you this credential ... it would be in exchange for what?
HM:"I'm not going to give them anything. I am going to keep on with the struggle. . I am going to keep going because it is needed. And, furthermore. ... there are many people who tell me that they are not going to abandon me and who trust me.“
“I feel pretty good about that."
La Jornada: If you accept that credential on the condition you are rural police, would you betray those people?
HM:"I would betray many people as well as myself."